Posts by Doug Mason

35

WT / JW Doctrine ,Satan cast out of Heaven in 1914 ? He has always had access to the earth ? Since Eve .

by smiddy3 in

this doctrine / belief that jehovah`s witnesses have , surely raises a few questions that they do not address.. 1.this spirit being challenged god by questioning his authority and offering eve an alternative making himself satan.. and this took place on earth ,the garden of eden.

so he who became satan had access to the earth.. 2. all throughout the old testament , the hebrew scriptures do we find examples of satan interfering with gods plan of things either by himself or his followers .. 3.their are just too many examples to list individually ,however a few key ones would be , the nephilim , job when god in heaven asks him where he has been , and his reply , from roving about on the earth .

, etc.etc.. 4.and of course in the new testament , where jesus is taken up into a mountain to be tempted by satan for fourty days ?.

Doug Mason

Critical biblical scholarship allows us—perhaps even forces us—to see Genesis 1:1-2:4a and 2:4b-3:24 as two distinct stories that should be interpreted separately. … We might believe that its main theme is the curse received by the woman (and all women), yet the word "curse" is absent in God's comments to her (Gen. 3:16), while it is present in God's statements both to the serpent (3:14) and to the man (3:17). Moreover, the doctrines of the Fall of Man or original sin are nowhere to be found in this passage, though they appear in early Christian interpretation of the text. The Garden Story is about immortality lost and sexuality gained. …

As immortal beings, they were asexual; in the Garden story God does not tell them to "be fertile and increase" as they were told in the first creation story (Gen. 1:28). Sexuality is discovered only after eating from the tree, when "they perceived that they were naked" (3:7). In fact, the divine command of 2:17 should not be understood as often translated—"for as soon as you eat of it, you shall die" (so the JPS translation)—but rather "for as soon as you eat of it, you shall become mortal." The connection between (procreative) sexuality and mortality is compelling and was well understood even in antiquity—if people were to be both sexually procreative and immortal, disastrous overpopulation would result. …

The tree that is first forbidden is (literally) "the tree of knowledge of good and bad." Here, "knowledge" is being used in a sense that it often has in the Bible: intimate or sexual knowledge. "Good and bad" is being used here as a figure of speech called a "merism": two opposite terms are joined by the word "and"; the resulting figure means "everything" or "the ultimate." (A merism is likewise used in Genesis 1:1, "heaven and earth," which there means the entire world.) The words "good and bad" have no moral connotation here.

Only after the primordial couple eats from the tree do they gain sexual awareness. … Eating from the tree of "knowledge" leads to a very specific type of "knowing." Nowhere in the text is this knowledge depicted as intellectual or ethical.

This reading also explains why the tree of life is mentioned only toward the end of the story (Gen. 3:22). Early in the story, people were immortal, so that tree offered no advantage, and thus was not mentioned. However, only after eating from the tree of ultimate "knowledge," becoming sexual, and becoming mortal, does the tree of life come into focus. Eating from this tree would allow people to become both immortal and sexual, creating an overpopulation problem. The first couple was expelled not as punishment, but so that they might not "take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever!" (3:22). …

God's response to the woman after she eats from the tree is not a curse. The words "And to the woman He said, / 'I will make most severe / Your pangs in childbearing; / In pain shall you bear children. / Yet your urge shall be for your husband, / And he shall rule over you'" (Gen. 3:16) are a description of women's new state: procreative, with all the "pains" connected to procreation in the premodern world, including the natural pain of childbirth. This verse is not stating (as a harmonistic reading of Genesis 1-3 might imply) that before eating the fruit women gave birth painlessly, but now they would have labor pains. Furthermore, it notes that women will not do what most people do—try to avoid pain at all cost—because "your urge shall be for your husband, / And he shall rule over you." The meaning of this last section is ambiguous. … The context of this verse suggests that it means merely that men will determine when couples engage in sexual intercourse. …

The Bible (in contrast to much of Victorian and post-Victorian society) has a generally positive attitude toward human sexuality, as may be seen most clearly from the Song of Songs. …

Genesis 1:1-2:4a and 2:4b-3:24 are two separate stories, written by different authors using different styles. … Neither aims primarily at offering a scientific description of "the earth and everything upon it" (Neh. 9:6). They are metaphors on the story level, traditional tales dealing with issues of collective importance. As such, they are "creating" worlds. (Excerpts from “How to Read the Jewish Bible” by Jewish Bible scholar Marc Zvi Brettler)

13

Mixed up references in "The Origin of Life"

by Doug Mason in

until now, i have never had a reason to read the brochure "the origin of life" so i am certain that what i am about to say has been commented on widely.. page 31 commences the list of endnotes.. endnote 1a gives "francis crick" as its source.

there is no reference to any endnote 1a in the body of the brochure.

however, page 32 credits "nicholas wade" at endnote 18. page 14 of the brochure makes reference to endnote 18, with the nondescript "one science book".. page 31 lists an endnote 7a, which does not exist in the body of the brochure.

Doug Mason

Page 8 references Endnote 7 this way: “Your body is one of the most complex structures in the universe. It is made up of some 100 trillion tiny cells—bone cells, blood cells, brain cells, to name a few.7”

The listing at pages 31 points to: “Princeton Weekly Bulletin, “Nuts, Bolts of Who We Are,” by Steven Schultz, May 1, 2000, (http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/00/0501/p/brain.shtml).

The link does bring up that article. Unfortunately for the brochure, none of the key words such as: cells, bone, or blood, appear in the Princeton article. This is not surprising, because, as the article referred to by the WTS’s brochure says:

“The center's goal is to understand the biological parts and processes behind such phenomena as consciousness, moral behavior and logical thought.”

A fitting comment.

Doug

13

Mixed up references in "The Origin of Life"

by Doug Mason in

until now, i have never had a reason to read the brochure "the origin of life" so i am certain that what i am about to say has been commented on widely.. page 31 commences the list of endnotes.. endnote 1a gives "francis crick" as its source.

there is no reference to any endnote 1a in the body of the brochure.

however, page 32 credits "nicholas wade" at endnote 18. page 14 of the brochure makes reference to endnote 18, with the nondescript "one science book".. page 31 lists an endnote 7a, which does not exist in the body of the brochure.

Doug Mason

My copy, which is both a physical copy and also one that I downloaded from JW.ORG, are dated 2010

13

Mixed up references in "The Origin of Life"

by Doug Mason in

until now, i have never had a reason to read the brochure "the origin of life" so i am certain that what i am about to say has been commented on widely.. page 31 commences the list of endnotes.. endnote 1a gives "francis crick" as its source.

there is no reference to any endnote 1a in the body of the brochure.

however, page 32 credits "nicholas wade" at endnote 18. page 14 of the brochure makes reference to endnote 18, with the nondescript "one science book".. page 31 lists an endnote 7a, which does not exist in the body of the brochure.

Doug Mason

Until now, I have never had a reason to read the brochure "The Origin of Life" so I am certain that what I am about to say has been commented on widely.

Page 31 commences the list of Endnotes.

Endnote 1a gives "Francis Crick" as its source. There is no reference to any Endnote 1a in the body of the brochure. Crick is actually only mentioned at page 21, with that paragraph referencing Endnote 26. However, on page 32, Endnote 26 credits “David Lamb”. However, there is no mention of any David Lamb in the body of the brochure.

On page 31, Endnote 2a gives "Nicholas Wade" as its source. There is no reference to an Endnote 2a in the body of the brochure. However, page 32 credits "Nicholas Wade" at Endnote 18. Page 14 of the brochure makes reference to Endnote 18, with the nondescript "one science book".

Page 31 lists an Endnote 7a, which does not exist in the body of the brochure. However, it does appear that 7a could be the same as Endnote 8. The text at page 8, which makes reference to Endnotes 7 and 8, provides such basic information there is no need to cite a 2002 Nobel Prize press release. The link provided by the brochure led to a dead end.

I located the the particular 2002 Nobel Prize indicated by the mythical Endnote 7a. It was "for their discoveries concerning genetic regulation of organ development and programmed cell death".

Doug

35

WT / JW Doctrine ,Satan cast out of Heaven in 1914 ? He has always had access to the earth ? Since Eve .

by smiddy3 in

this doctrine / belief that jehovah`s witnesses have , surely raises a few questions that they do not address.. 1.this spirit being challenged god by questioning his authority and offering eve an alternative making himself satan.. and this took place on earth ,the garden of eden.

so he who became satan had access to the earth.. 2. all throughout the old testament , the hebrew scriptures do we find examples of satan interfering with gods plan of things either by himself or his followers .. 3.their are just too many examples to list individually ,however a few key ones would be , the nephilim , job when god in heaven asks him where he has been , and his reply , from roving about on the earth .

, etc.etc.. 4.and of course in the new testament , where jesus is taken up into a mountain to be tempted by satan for fourty days ?.

Doug Mason

EverApostate,

You are absolutely correct. There is no "Satan" in the Eden story. And as for the encounter in Job, the satan there is not the personification of evil. Rather, he is an agent carrying out YHWH's permissions and instructions. This satan is simply the Prosecutor in a court and God negotiates with him.

Every modern concept of Satan (aka Azazel, Belial, Mastema, Diabolos/Devil, etc., etc.) is derived from the 3rd century BCE and later (1 Enoch, Jubilees, etc.). Knowledge of the dates of the 6th century neo-Babylonian captivity and exile will quickly show that the rise of Satan as the personification of evil arose much later than the vast bulk of the Hebrew Scriptures. The only major writing that came after the 3rd century BCE is Daniel, and that book makes reference to the The Watchers.

Not only was "snake" seen as the wisest of the beasts, it was commonly associated with the gods, including EL's wife Asherah. (Google Images with: Asherah snake as well as with Asherah serpent)

As the Hebrew scriptures show, those writers were very much against Asherah, The people erected poles in her honour within the temple, so I am not surprised the writers referenced serpent in their story of the deception of Eve.

Doug

31

Angels are Neuter Gender According to JW`s

by smiddy3 in

what about the bible ,does that agree with the jw theology ?.

therefore angels are sexless ,yet we find in the bible on a few occasions where they have lusted after women ,taken a mans form and had sex with women.. .on one occasion producing hybrids half human half angel.. on other occasions they just wanted to satisfy their sexual desires.?

their sexless aren`t they ?

Doug Mason

Xanthippe,

The creation of the idea that Genesis 6 speaks of sex between spirit being and humans comes from the time when the Jews were inundated with Greek culture and thought -- and trading. The Jews did not live in isolation. Indeed, they were widely spread among the nations.

They were so deeply enmeshed, with so many losing knowledge of the Hebrew language, they had to translate their sacred holy texts into Greek, now known as the Septuagint.

Doug

31

Angels are Neuter Gender According to JW`s

by smiddy3 in

what about the bible ,does that agree with the jw theology ?.

therefore angels are sexless ,yet we find in the bible on a few occasions where they have lusted after women ,taken a mans form and had sex with women.. .on one occasion producing hybrids half human half angel.. on other occasions they just wanted to satisfy their sexual desires.?

their sexless aren`t they ?

Doug Mason

The idea that Genesis 6 is speaking about spirit beings emanates from the 3rd century BCE. Moses told Pharaoh the nation was Yahweh's son. Good people were God's children. The sons of God were deceived by the fair women of the heathens. The following excerpts describe the time when the world of good (Michael, Gabriel, etc.) and evil spirit beings (Belial, Azazel, Mastema, Satan, etc.) were invented, when they invented a war actually taking place in heaven(!),

-----------------------

When angels do appear in pre-Exilic texts, their function is to perform actions that would otherwise be attributed to God directly and personally. That is what would be expected of an increasingly monotheistic culture, in which writers were reluctant to involve God too directly in mundane functions. (Jenkins, Philip. Crucible of Faith: The Ancient Revolution That Made Our Modern Religious World, p. 151. Basic Books. Kindle Edition.)

In their familiar form, angels do not appear in Jewish texts that can plausibly be dated before the third century, but by about 200 BCE angelic mythology suddenly emerges fully formed in multiple texts. (Jenkins, Philip. Crucible of Faith: The Ancient Revolution That Made Our Modern Religious World, p. 150. Basic Books. Kindle Edition.)

The pioneering text for the new order was 1 Enoch, which enumerates both good and evil angels and identifies heavenly ranks and hierarchies. One passage in the “Book of the Watchers” lists the seven great archangels, each with his particular area of responsibility, including the following:

Raphael, one of the holy angels, who is over the spirits of men…

Michael, one of the holy angels, to wit, he that is set over the best part of mankind and over chaos…

Gabriel, one of the holy angels, who is over Paradise and the serpents and the Cherubim.

(Jenkins, Philip. Crucible of Faith: The Ancient Revolution That Made Our Modern Religious World, pp. 152-153. Basic Books. Kindle Edition.)

Surprisingly advanced theologizing about angels appears in Tobit, which was written around the same time as the earlier sections of 1 Enoch. (Jenkins, Philip. Crucible of Faith: The Ancient Revolution That Made Our Modern Religious World, p. 153. Basic Books. Kindle Edition.

In the century or so after the Maccabean revolt …, spiritual forces were personified in images that now occupied center stage in the religious narrative. Hell, Darkness, and the Devil now dominated religious thought, as they absolutely had not in the literature of the canonical Old Testament. (Jenkins, Philip. Crucible of Faith: The Ancient Revolution That Made Our Modern Religious World, p. 149. Basic Books. Kindle Edition.)

Another form of heavenly intercession [is] documented in the second century, with the prayer for the dead advocated in 2 Maccabees. Writers at this time were exploring the implications of a more interconnected and hierarchical universe, which contained not just angels and demons but also the souls of the dead. (Jenkins, Philip. Crucible of Faith: The Ancient Revolution That Made Our Modern Religious World, p. 153. Basic Books. Kindle Edition.)

Originally, the name Azazel was part of the ancient scapegoat ritual, by which the community selected goats to be sacrificed or exiled in order to carry away the sins of the community. These were to be consigned to “absolute removal,” the word that became “Azazel.” Eventually, that word became the personal name of a mighty archdemon, as in 1 Enoch. Originally, too, Belial likewise represented a title or quality, in this case “Without Worth.” Concepts evolved into persons, who in turn became characters in a rapidly emerging mythology. (Jenkins, Philip. Crucible of Faith: The Ancient Revolution That Made Our Modern Religious World, p. 153. Basic Books. Kindle Edition.)

31

Angels are Neuter Gender According to JW`s

by smiddy3 in

what about the bible ,does that agree with the jw theology ?.

therefore angels are sexless ,yet we find in the bible on a few occasions where they have lusted after women ,taken a mans form and had sex with women.. .on one occasion producing hybrids half human half angel.. on other occasions they just wanted to satisfy their sexual desires.?

their sexless aren`t they ?

Doug Mason

Genesis 6 only says that "the sons of God" were taken in by women who were "fair".

It does not say that these "sons of God" were spirit beings. That idea does not come from Genesis. The people who invented that concept lived in the 3rd century BCE, at the time when 1 Enoch began to be written, along with other speculative books, including with Jubilees and later, Daniel. These are the writings that influenced sects such as the Dead Sea Community, John the Baptist, and the ensuing Christian movement.

Please read the history of that period as most Christian mythologies emanate from that time, such as Satan/Devil, demons, war in heaven, and so on.

One good place to start is the book: "Crucible of Faith: The Ancient Revolution that made our Modern Religious World" by Philip Jenkins.

Research the Second Temple Period, the time from the rebuilding of the temple in the 6thcenturies BCE to its destruction in 70 CE.

Another book: "Reading Mark in Context: Jesus and Second Temple Judaism"; There are a few in that series.

They are available as Kindle editons.

Embryonic Christianity was part of that Jewish environment.
Doug

75

OCT 2019 Watchtower - Survival dependant on loyalty to JW Leaders

by Listener in

there is so much wrong with the newly released october, 2019 but that's not unusual.

what stands out is there statement claiming that survival through armageddon depends on loyalty to those 'taking the lead'.

since they claim there will be a point during the gt that they (the gb) won't be physically around, jws must still be loyal to jw leaders.. whats interesting in this article is that they make it clear that they, the governing body are going to take part, from heaven, in the war of armageddon.

Doug Mason

Hi Smiddy3,

The following is from Insight on the Scriptures, Vol. 2, page 1196, article: “Woman”:

Doug

For those called by God to the heavenly calling (Heb 3:1) to be joint heirs with Jesus Christ, there is no distinction between men and women in a spiritual sense. The apostle writes: “You are all, in fact, sons of God through your faith in Christ … there is neither male nor female; for you are all one person in union with Christ Jesus.” (Ga 3:26-28) These all must receive a change of nature at their resurrection, being made partakers together of “divine nature,” in which state none will be women, for there is no female sex among spirit creatures.

4

Evidence of editing

by Doug Mason in

evidence of editing: burning of jerusalem: https://jwstudies.com/evidence_of_editing__burning_of_jerusalem.pdf .

evidence of editing: gedaliah's murder: https://jwstudies.com/evidence_of_editing__gedaliah_s_murder.pdf .

evidence of editing: rewriting prophecy: https://jwstudies.com/evidence_of_editing__rewriting_prophecy.pdf .

Doug Mason

Evidence of editing: Burning of Jerusalem: https://jwstudies.com/Evidence_of_Editing__Burning_of_Jerusalem.pdf

Evidence of editing: Gedaliah's murder: https://jwstudies.com/Evidence_of_Editing__Gedaliah_s_murder.pdf

Evidence of editing: Rewriting prophecy: https://jwstudies.com/Evidence_of_Editing__Rewriting_Prophecy.pdf

Doug